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	<title>Comments on: No-Lordship: Savior apart from Lord</title>
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	<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/</link>
	<description>The modern pulpit from a reforming layman&#039;s perspective</description>
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		<title>By: randy</title>
		<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/#comment-36</guid>
		<description>In a private e-mail Shon said, &quot;Definitely not bitter at God ... But I&#039;m angered like Paul was when he wrote Galatians as he confronted those who required the brethren that they must keep the Law to be saved , he said about them &quot; may the go mutilate themselves&quot; ... I&#039;m not here to please u or any group or sect , but to cherish and preserve the Gospel of Gods grace. I am not against sanctification as a result of justification but against those who mix the 2 together and leave the brethren unsure as to their security in Christ .. U do not see my intentions ... Only my Savior does ... He also sees whether u follow Him or if u follow men and try to please a certain view like MacArthurs or Pipers&quot;

My reply:

You mention Galations which proves my point.  Paul is writing to the Galations to REPENT from dead works.  If faith in Christ does not mean any physical or actual repentance why then must the Galations STOP their dead works?  Could they not had just had this intellectual faith you describe and continued doing their worthless deeds?

Fact of the matter is:  Attempting to earn your righteousness through dead works is SIN...  and Paul commanded the Galations to STOP SINNING... and not only that... He tells them that if they continue in sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fit sof anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkneess, orgies, and things LIKE THESE... they also will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

Galations 5: 16But I say,(AD) walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify(AE) the desires of the flesh. 17For(AF) the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other,(AG) to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are(AH) led by the Spirit,(AI) you are not under the law. 19Now(AJ) the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions,(AK) divisions, 21envy,[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that(AL) those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a private e-mail Shon said, &#8220;Definitely not bitter at God &#8230; But I&#8217;m angered like Paul was when he wrote Galatians as he confronted those who required the brethren that they must keep the Law to be saved , he said about them &#8221; may the go mutilate themselves&#8221; &#8230; I&#8217;m not here to please u or any group or sect , but to cherish and preserve the Gospel of Gods grace. I am not against sanctification as a result of justification but against those who mix the 2 together and leave the brethren unsure as to their security in Christ .. U do not see my intentions &#8230; Only my Savior does &#8230; He also sees whether u follow Him or if u follow men and try to please a certain view like MacArthurs or Pipers&#8221;</p>
<p>My reply:</p>
<p>You mention Galations which proves my point.  Paul is writing to the Galations to REPENT from dead works.  If faith in Christ does not mean any physical or actual repentance why then must the Galations STOP their dead works?  Could they not had just had this intellectual faith you describe and continued doing their worthless deeds?</p>
<p>Fact of the matter is:  Attempting to earn your righteousness through dead works is SIN&#8230;  and Paul commanded the Galations to STOP SINNING&#8230; and not only that&#8230; He tells them that if they continue in sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fit sof anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkneess, orgies, and things LIKE THESE&#8230; they also will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.</p>
<p>Galations 5: 16But I say,(AD) walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify(AE) the desires of the flesh. 17For(AF) the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other,(AG) to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are(AH) led by the Spirit,(AI) you are not under the law. 19Now(AJ) the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions,(AK) divisions, 21envy,[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that(AL) those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.</p>
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		<title>By: randy</title>
		<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Does not the grace of God disciplines us to live Godly? (Titus 2:12)

Mark 1:15 &quot;Repent and Believe.  Acts 2:38; repent and be baptized :)

Sir..  find me where Jesus did not mention repentance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does not the grace of God disciplines us to live Godly? (Titus 2:12)</p>
<p>Mark 1:15 &#8220;Repent and Believe.  Acts 2:38; repent and be baptized <img src='http://www.modernpulpit.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Sir..  find me where Jesus did not mention repentance.</p>
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		<title>By: Shon</title>
		<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Shon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>any by the way .... the whole ability to believe doctrine that your talking about  .... is just a cop out for saying ..... God gives me the ability so I can save myself ....

The Catholic church says the same thing ... the say .... we are saved by grace ... but what they mean ... GOD infuses the &quot;grace or power&quot; so I can do &quot;works or acts of grace or repent or believe or etc etc&quot; so I can hopefully get saved. They call that grace ... LOL

Look at every example of Grace in the bible ... the beauty of it is ... not God helping you to get saved ... its God graciously ... saving you without any help .... HE ALONE IS SAVIOR.

So when you say ... He gives you the ABILITY to have faith and repent .... notice what you&#039;ve done .... in your attempt to sound humble and give God the glory .... you have just opened a door and included &quot;YOU&quot; in the middle of the work of salvation.

I could say ... God gave me the ability to do good works so I can be saved .. and you would say .... no .... thats wrong ... the bible says we&#039;re saved by grace alone .... then I could use the same cop out excuse and say ... God not only sent His Son as a Gift to save me ... but He gave me the gift or ability to do works .... so therefore I am not denying salvation by works .... that would not fly .... its a disguise   for denying salvation by faith alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>any by the way &#8230;. the whole ability to believe doctrine that your talking about  &#8230;. is just a cop out for saying &#8230;.. God gives me the ability so I can save myself &#8230;.</p>
<p>The Catholic church says the same thing &#8230; the say &#8230;. we are saved by grace &#8230; but what they mean &#8230; GOD infuses the &#8220;grace or power&#8221; so I can do &#8220;works or acts of grace or repent or believe or etc etc&#8221; so I can hopefully get saved. They call that grace &#8230; LOL</p>
<p>Look at every example of Grace in the bible &#8230; the beauty of it is &#8230; not God helping you to get saved &#8230; its God graciously &#8230; saving you without any help &#8230;. HE ALONE IS SAVIOR.</p>
<p>So when you say &#8230; He gives you the ABILITY to have faith and repent &#8230;. notice what you&#8217;ve done &#8230;. in your attempt to sound humble and give God the glory &#8230;. you have just opened a door and included &#8220;YOU&#8221; in the middle of the work of salvation.</p>
<p>I could say &#8230; God gave me the ability to do good works so I can be saved .. and you would say &#8230;. no &#8230;. thats wrong &#8230; the bible says we&#8217;re saved by grace alone &#8230;. then I could use the same cop out excuse and say &#8230; God not only sent His Son as a Gift to save me &#8230; but He gave me the gift or ability to do works &#8230;. so therefore I am not denying salvation by works &#8230;. that would not fly &#8230;. its a disguise   for denying salvation by faith alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Shon</title>
		<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Shon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Just on example of a biblically historical situation (the Gospels or Acts) where Jesus or an Apostle or any preacher of the Gospel specifically told an unbeliever that they must DO something other than believe on the Lord Jesus for salvation?

I can give many many many many (im sure you get my emphasis :) examples where FAITH ALONE in CHRIST ALONE was all that was required for salvation/Justification</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just on example of a biblically historical situation (the Gospels or Acts) where Jesus or an Apostle or any preacher of the Gospel specifically told an unbeliever that they must DO something other than believe on the Lord Jesus for salvation?</p>
<p>I can give many many many many (im sure you get my emphasis <img src='http://www.modernpulpit.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  examples where FAITH ALONE in CHRIST ALONE was all that was required for salvation/Justification</p>
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		<title>By: randy</title>
		<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>The biblical command to all men is to repent and believe.  Lordship salvation is a bad term for the doctrine.  The doctrine does not state that man must get his life in order so that he might be saved.  Neither does it say that he must work for his salvation.  It simple means that if he is saved what will follow is works.  Works are not the root of his salvation, they are the fruit of it.  Lordship salvation opposes the idea that a man can simply repeat a prayer, continue his life in sin and call himself saved.  This is unbiblical and the entire book of 1 John refutes it.  Lordship salvation simply means that Jesus not only saves you from Hell but also sin via a process called sanctification.  He can not be your savior without Him also being your Lord.  If you have been Justified (that is Reconciled to God) then Sanctification naturally follows and the promise is of course a future Glorification (new body, new heaven).  The bible is clear on this, the list of verses I have made: http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/03/lordship-verses/

Reconciliation to God means that you are not longer at enmity with Him.  You are no longer rebelling against Him but in fact you are reconciled to Him.  Where He was once your enemy, He is now your Lord.  While you were once against Him, you are now for Him.. You have turned around (repentance).  You live for Him and seek to glorify Him as He initially created man to do.  Regeneration is a miraculous work where at once you were dead in trespasses and sins: you are now alive.  You are born-again, a new creature who seeks after and lives for God.

Anti-Lordship denies this and states that men must simply repeat a prayer and &quot;accept Jesus&quot;.  Anti-Lordship states that Jesus can be savior and yet man can have nothing to do with Him as Lord.  This is utterly unbiblical as the command to unbeleivers is to repent and beleive.  See also my post on the false gospel: http://www.thlibo.com/2008/12/16/the-true-gospel-vs-the-false-gospel/  and 1 John is particularly helpful in its declaration against men who say that &quot;they know Him&quot; but do not keep his commands and deny them with their works...  The bible calls them liars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biblical command to all men is to repent and believe.  Lordship salvation is a bad term for the doctrine.  The doctrine does not state that man must get his life in order so that he might be saved.  Neither does it say that he must work for his salvation.  It simple means that if he is saved what will follow is works.  Works are not the root of his salvation, they are the fruit of it.  Lordship salvation opposes the idea that a man can simply repeat a prayer, continue his life in sin and call himself saved.  This is unbiblical and the entire book of 1 John refutes it.  Lordship salvation simply means that Jesus not only saves you from Hell but also sin via a process called sanctification.  He can not be your savior without Him also being your Lord.  If you have been Justified (that is Reconciled to God) then Sanctification naturally follows and the promise is of course a future Glorification (new body, new heaven).  The bible is clear on this, the list of verses I have made: <a href="http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/03/lordship-verses/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/03/lordship-verses/</a></p>
<p>Reconciliation to God means that you are not longer at enmity with Him.  You are no longer rebelling against Him but in fact you are reconciled to Him.  Where He was once your enemy, He is now your Lord.  While you were once against Him, you are now for Him.. You have turned around (repentance).  You live for Him and seek to glorify Him as He initially created man to do.  Regeneration is a miraculous work where at once you were dead in trespasses and sins: you are now alive.  You are born-again, a new creature who seeks after and lives for God.</p>
<p>Anti-Lordship denies this and states that men must simply repeat a prayer and &#8220;accept Jesus&#8221;.  Anti-Lordship states that Jesus can be savior and yet man can have nothing to do with Him as Lord.  This is utterly unbiblical as the command to unbeleivers is to repent and beleive.  See also my post on the false gospel: <a href="http://www.thlibo.com/2008/12/16/the-true-gospel-vs-the-false-gospel/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thlibo.com/2008/12/16/the-true-gospel-vs-the-false-gospel/</a>  and 1 John is particularly helpful in its declaration against men who say that &#8220;they know Him&#8221; but do not keep his commands and deny them with their works&#8230;  The bible calls them liars.</p>
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		<title>By: Shon</title>
		<link>http://www.modernpulpit.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Shon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thlibo.com/2009/01/01/no-lordship-savior-apart-from-lord/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>I happen to land on this website as I am doing some research on the Lordship view.

Can you give me a biblical example from the book of Acts where any of the Apostles or anyone preaching the Gospel to an unbeliever where they required more something other than believing or turing to the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior from their sins in order to be justified?

thanks, Shon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I happen to land on this website as I am doing some research on the Lordship view.</p>
<p>Can you give me a biblical example from the book of Acts where any of the Apostles or anyone preaching the Gospel to an unbeliever where they required more something other than believing or turing to the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior from their sins in order to be justified?</p>
<p>thanks, Shon</p>
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